Jan
27
Group dynamics: When is it OK to speak Spanish?
When I lived in New York City I was surrounded, not surprisingly, by Spanish speakers. In my apartment building, at the gym, on the job, I frequently heard people speaking Spanish. To me, it was no big deal. In fact, it was just a normal part of life in the Big Apple.
The mailroom at my former job in Manhattan was staffed by a group of young guys who were primarily from the Bronx. Several of them were of Dominican or Puerto Rican heritage. All of them spoke fluent English, of course, but when they were together it was very natural for them to speak to one another in Spanish. It was common to hear them laughing and talking in Spanish while they did their work. The same thing with my company’s building security guards. When they were together, they spoke in Spanish. To me it wasn’t a big deal but there were some people I worked with who, despite their personal belief that they were well-traveled, well-read sophisticates, were extremely uncomfortable hearing Spanish in the workplace. Some of them were a little paranoid and wondered aloud whether the guys in the mailroom were talking about them.
In some instances, yeah, the guys in the mailroom were griping about people on staff, but the majority of the time they were talking about the same things English-speakers talk about: sports, family, girlfriends, what’s for lunch, TV, movies, plans for the holidays, etc.
One of my anglo co-workers used to speak Spanish on the telephone with her South American husband. Whenever she was on the phone with him she tended to whisper and talk very quietly so as not to draw attention. Her cubicle was right next to mine and she knew that I was into the Spanish language, so I asked her if her voice dropped a level when she was on the phone because she was worried I would overhear what she was saying. She told me that it wasn’t that what she was talking about was so private but that she felt self-conscious speaking Spanish at the office, particularly since her cubicle was located directly in front of our boss’ office.
What are your thoughts on this? For those of you who are in the U.S. or any place where Spanish isn’t the official language, are you cool with co-workers speaking to one another in Spanish? Even though you may understand what they are saying, do you feel that it is inappropriate and that they should keep such exchanges to a minimum? Do you find it OK in some jobs and some situations but totally wrong in others?
For example, at the supermarket when the cashiers talk openly to one another in Spanish while they scan the groceries.
Personally I don’t have a problem with it, but maybe it’s because I usually understand, more or less, what they’re saying. In fact, I believe that co-workers speaking to one another in Spanish can become a kind of glue that keeps the workplace humming. But I can think of scenarios in which it could pose a staff morale problem. For example, an Anglo-owned and operated workplace staffed with a large number of native Spanish-speaking employees. The English-speaking employees who don’t understand Spanish may find themselves on the outside, looking in, unable to follow the jokes or participate in the everyday chitchat that brings co-workers together.
What do you think?
Living in Spain, I’ve seen things from the other side, where Spaniards (and other Europeans) will speak in English, even if their English is weak, to try to accommodate any English speakers present. You see this typically in group social outings where there might be one or two native English speakers and five or six native Spanish speakers. Despite the fact that the Spanish speakers are the majority, the group dialogue will be a mix of Spanish and English or primarily English, if the Spanish speakers present can defenderse en inglés.
What’s been your experience? Is there a right time and a wrong time to speak Spanish?
January 27th, 2009 at 3:14 am
I have lived in So. AZ for nearly all of my 73 years. I’ve had hispanic next door neighbors, school mates, co-workers, and friends. We’ve had elected and appointed local officials all along who are/were bilingual and so long as their conversations are/were social and unofficial, their speaking Spanish didn’t bother me. I was once, as a teen-ager, very much taken with a señorita in high school, who did frequently use Spanish. used to work as a lending officer at a bank. Had many customers who didn’t speak English, and others who were bi-lingual. It was not a problem or an annoyance if they spoke Spanish there. I am now acquainted socially with some hispanics whom I never hear speaking Spanish except to tutor me. Some claim they are no longer very fluent in it. Hearing Spanish being spoken does not bother me. It didn’t annoy me even when I understood only the curse words they used. The meaning of the words wasn’t welcomed, but the idiom was not a problem. However, now we have somehow acquired a government which accommodates and encourages hispanics to not learn English. I don’t have any objection if they don’t want to learn English, and have no objection to commercial establishments offering the alternative of Spanish in conversation and documents. However, I think it would be better for our country if people would be required to do their official (legal) business in English – even when doing so would require and interpreter. That would be a minimum incentive for them to learn and assimilate into the prevailing culture of this country. However, despite all the signs such as “Vote Aquí”, and thick voter information pamphlets in Spanish distributed by the Secretary of State, I don’t personally know a great many hispanics who are totally illiterate in English. But I do know a few. I have neighbors living close by who have been here for years and can – so far as I can tell – only say “Good morning etc.” They just will not even try to communicate with me in English beyond that. I also know that the use of Spanish predominates at the Food Bank and Department of Economic Services. No, hearing Spanish in general, social, or commercial sites does not “bother” me. But, I do wish that those who only speak Spanish would endeavor to learn English.
January 27th, 2009 at 5:58 am
I once had two coworkers, a Cambodian and a Laotian, who spoke fluent Thai. If I were talking with them in English and they suddenly broke into Thai, excluding me from the conversation, I would be offended (not that that ever happened). If they were having a private conversation while walking by my desk then I shouldn’t be listening in the first place. Should I really care that they are speaking in Thai?
I think that we should have more or less the same policy wherever we are. If a mother and her daughter are shopping in the same aisle you are and use a language you don’t understand to communicate then you have no business demanding they speak your language just because you are in their presence. If they both speak your language, ask you a question in that language, converse about your answer in a language you don’t understand and then ask you another question in your language, they’re being very rude.
January 27th, 2009 at 10:33 am
When I was studying Russian, some Georgian and Russian co-workers of mine and I would speak Russian during work or during lunch. But because most Dutch people only speak Dutch, English or German, they actually did bother when we would yell at each other in that weird language that they couldn’t understand at all.
For Spanish this is not the case, although they can’t understand it. At work I have no one to speak Spanish with, but at school and my internship that’s totally different. When I’m talking with my boss in the school I have my internship, I either speak Dutch or Spanish. In college I only speak Spanish and sometimes Dutch with Dutch classmates. People don’t care that much when it comes to Spanish.
Still, there’s a problem with Turkish and Arabic-speaking immigrants here. They keep speaking their own language, even in public. Personally, I don’t have a problem with it, but many people do. I often hear Dutch people saying about Turkish speakers: “Are they talking about me, or what?!”.
January 27th, 2009 at 2:00 pm
@KEN: I am bothered, as well, by the number of people who live in the U.S. for decades and never learn to speak English. But I also feel the same way about Americans who live in foreign countries and never learn the language of the place where they are living and working. To me it’s a question of respect and showing a desire to culturally adapt and integrate. Speaking the language of the country is the best way to do that.
It’s interesting to note that earlier generations of immigrants to the U.S. realized that their options for work and for surviving in the U.S. were severely limited without some proficiency in English. For many, learning English as rapidly as possible was the goal. Now the pendulum has swung too far in the opposite direction and I think that is one of the consequences of too much undocumented immigration. If an immigrant doesn’t view the U.S. as his home, just a place to earn money for a season, he isn’t going to feel motivated enough to want to learn English, knowing that he can get by without it. The problem is that one season turns into one year, a year into a decade and before you know it, the immigrant has lived more of his life in the U.S. than in his native country and finds that he doesn’t fit in in either place. Curious, isn’t it?
@RYAN: That scenario you present with the language switching in small groups, I see that a lot. And there’s always one person who wants to do the right thing (keep the discussion in one language that the majority speaks) while there’s another person who insists on switching back and forth, including and then excluding people from the conversation based on which language is being used.
@RAMSES: You present great real-life examples that show that at the root of this tension are perceptions about social class and ethnic identity. There are negative stereotypes that exist about certain nationalities so some people automatically get uncomfortable at the sound of those foreign languages because of cultural baggage and personal prejudices.
Thanks, guys, for commenting!
January 27th, 2009 at 2:11 pm
Wow, this is a great topic for discussion, Eleena!
I am sometimes ‘stuck’, not knowing it it’s rude to speak to my Spanish-speaking friends in Spanish when I am with non-Spanish speakers. For example, several people who work at the local Mexican restaurant know I am very appreciative when they speak to me in Spanish as I don’t have much opportunity to practice. (I also help them with their English.) But when I come in with English-speaking friends, I’m unsure and tend not to engage in too much Spanish conversation. I don’t want my friends to feel ‘left out,’ and also don’t want to appear to be showing off.
It’s a tough call as I definitely DON’T want to give my Spanish-speaking friends the impression that I’m somehow embarrassed to be speaking Spanish when I’m with friends.
January 27th, 2009 at 3:01 pm
Marilyn,
I can totally relate to what you said. It can turn into a bit of a minefield because even when friends and family say they don’t mind you never know what they’re REALLY thinking. Initially, they’re proud of you and think it’s so cool that you’re speaking a foreign language. But a few minutes later they might start feeling excluded or ignored, even when that’s not the case.
With the restaurant scenario, if it’s a place you frequent, I would tell my English-speaking friends in advance that you speaking Spanish is a part of your routine there and something that you enjoy and look forward to doing, but you won’t go the whole evening speaking only in Spanish. If that isn’t received well, then I would come up with some kind of codeword or signal to use with your Spanish-speaking friends so that they know whether or not it’s green light or red light for speaking Spanish in front of your non-Spanish speaking friends. That way they know that your reluctance to speak Spanish is just about being considerate of the feelings of your English-speaking friends and has nothing to do with you feeling embarrassed or ashamed to speak Spanish.
¡Qué lio!, ¿verdad?
January 27th, 2009 at 10:45 pm
I worked with a woman from Mexico (Until she recently moved back to D.F!) and, as I am learning spanish, I spoke as much as i could to hear in Spanish…The only time i spoke english was if i didn’t know how to say it in spanish. I never felt uncomfortalbe speaking another language to her.. But she never spoke Spanish to me.. Because she didn’t feel right doing that at work for an english company. So because of this i can speak pretty good but can’t undertstand a whistle!!!
January 27th, 2009 at 10:54 pm
I work with a number of Spanish speaking individuals, some who speak more English than others. I have found they are often relieved to discover I can at least communicate with them on a very basic level. At times it disappoints me that I can not communicate more fluently with them, but I can still see the relief on their face when they are struggling to say something in English and can’t quite get it out and I am able to work it out in Spanish with them. I think that I am just as nervous speaking in Spanish to them as they are speaking in English to me, but at least we have that common ground where they don’t have to feel totally isolated. I think we all have that fear that we are being talked about when we can’t understand what is being said, and I have on more than one occassion heard, “Cuidado, el entiende,” as I walk by a group at work and found myself laughing that at least they are cautious when I am around. I am usually just proud of myself for being able to understand that much. I feel in social settings, it is perfectly acceptable to speak whatever language you are comfortable speaking, however I do agree with most that for business type situations, you should speak the native language, whatever that may be. I think the more languages we can all learn the better off we all are, and I wish more people would speak Spanish with me so I could improve even more.
February 1st, 2009 at 1:29 am
I teach twice a week at a school run by a group of Italian-speaking nuns. They are all fluent in English, but they spend most of their meetings and lunch breaks chatting in Italian. It does tend to make me feel very much like an outsider.
As far as immigrants in the US not learning English, in my experience most people DO make an effort to learn English. We all know, though, just how much work goes into learning a new language, and many of the immigrants I know (especially ones without documentation) are working long hours at thankless jobs in order to scrape together enough money to feed their family. They have very little energy left at the end of the day to spend much of it studying, and I don’t blame them at all for that.
Additionally, I know many, many people whose great-grandparents immigrated to the US and never learned any English at all. I’ve heard so many stories of the reclusive parents or grandparents or great-grandparents of the early 20th century who depended on their young children to translate for them, and who weren’t able to talk at all with their English-only speaking grandchildren. This is not a new phenomenon!
February 18th, 2009 at 2:07 am
Tricia, I agree with you – I’m dubious that there were hordes of non-English-speaking immigrants in earlier centuries who went right to work learning English when they arrived. History seems to say that they went right to work in sweatshops 12-14 hours per day, or in coal mines, or building railroads, and left the language-learning for their descendants.
I expect that’s what my forebears did when they arrived from Switzerland (or Germany – we’re not quite sure where) in the mid-1800s.
I can appreciate the opinions shared by language learners on this site; the same ideas are rather hard for me to accept from folks who’ve never attempted to learn a second language and have no concept how difficult it is.
February 24th, 2009 at 9:17 am
I found this site on a google search by chance, and wanted to add after reading the article and the comments that I’m a white anglosaxon (whatever we’re calling white people these days), and my typical midwestern family is about half from Switzerland/Germany and the other Scotland/Ireland.
On my German speaking side, the Swiss individual in question could not speak with his grandchildren at all, and forced the grandchildren from speaking English at the dinner table because he thought they were making fun of him. This would’ve been the mid-1800s. Not a whole lot different than immigrants today.
It’s true, they left the language learning to the descendants.
Unfortunately the gov’t allowing illegal immigration encourages the immigrants to not adopt a new permanent home, yet a year turns into a decade pretty quickly. So there’s even less motivation to adopt the language of a new country if you know you’re doing nothing but squatting there to earn a living. Let’s face it, true blame lies on the governments fault which is our fault for not calling for accountability in a representative system. I call my senators and representatives all the time, if people don’t get off the couch or at least pick up a phone semi-frequently there’s no point in even mentioning it around the water cooler.
February 24th, 2009 at 9:18 am
And I studied Spanish for a few years at my alma mater and continued to a year after graduation, so I’m not foreign to the challenges of language learning. I need to get back into that soon, because learning a language is very rewarding and just plain good for keeping your mind in shape.
March 12th, 2009 at 10:12 pm
you guys who think speak another language makes you outsider are retarded Americans im only 14and my school wont let me and 2 other friends speak Spanish to each other because they think the we talk bad about the other kids witch is not true its discrimination not to let us speak our fist language in school if you don’t understand a language im sorry but go learn it instead of whining about it like little brats im done hate on me if you want but you’ll only hate if u truly are restated
March 13th, 2009 at 12:06 am
Francisco: ¡No te desanimes! Millones de inmigrantes han venido a los EE.UU. y han vivido el “sueño americano”. Ser bilingüe es algo bastante positivo y si logras dominar bien el español y el inglés al mismo tiempo, tendrás una ventaja que tus compañeros no tendrán.
Siento mucho que te traten de mal modo en tu escuela. El odio nunca solucionó ningún problema. Sin embargo, nadie quiere sentirse como extranjero en su propio país y así es que se sienten muchos americanos. No es nada imperialista ni dictatorial exigir que los residentes de largo plazo aprendan el idioma del país, ya sea en Tailandia, Estonia, Estados Unidos o México. No le toca al residente extranjero decir a los originales de un país que todos los demás deberían conformarse a él.
August 4th, 2009 at 7:55 am
There were times that I didn’t mind if people were speaking another language simply because I did not care to communicate with them.. That was rude of me but I had reasons that I was trying to keep the distance, simply because they were of the opposite sex and they’d just come on too strong with me and I’d mostly try to avoid them..
But when people were speaking a language I didn’t understand and I knew they were talking about me, I might’ve gotten pissed or annoyed..
On the other hand I might not have cared either, due to the fact that they didn’t say it in english. Fact is I could’ve really cared and their opinion would’ve really mattered to me! but.. They did not actually deliver the meaning to me, therefore it didn’t exist.. By not speaking the meaning, it’s as if they had made their opinion void.
Like the saying ‘if you wanna say something say it to my face,’
if you want (it) to count for something say it to my face-
‘Allow me to know and understand on a level so that I might actually care what you have to say.’
When speaking non-native languages.. It’s maybe understandable if some people don’t yet know the language being spoken.. and I guess it’s nice sometimes to practice other languages with people you come across and don’t always get the opportunity.
It might be hard to tell whether the other people around would mind if if another language were to be spoken around them, but they would definitely bore and tire easily if that’s all they had to hear.
It might be nice for certain conversations to be pulled to the side where it’s not within eavesdropping distance, unless the person knowingly has an interest in learning or expanding their knowledge of a language and wants to experience it being spoken.
I think in the past when people of the same sex as me were speaking another language I would feel a little left out- because of the fact I’d like to bond with other women and clearly I couldn’t because they were just laughing all over the place with jokes being made in the other language. That’s sort of rude usually.
If I were in the workplace with people of mixed genders (male and females) speaking a different language I might feel left out too but…
If two neutral men were speaking in another language I might be less offended probably because I’d assume they were “male bonding” or something.
I think that if there’s a question about it and you’re not sure then maybe the best bet is for everyone to speak the person’s native language in their presence..
It helps because then there is never a moment that they’ll get to “tune out” from you as you switch to the other language.. And “tuning out” is not such a bad thing, we all tune out time to time but for some reason it helps to stay in the same language as others around you because it is only fair that people get to know all dimensions of you..
I think that some people who genuinely care will WANT or appreciate to be included. And then there’s others who may be indifferent to the subject and have no preference but there’s a chance they might think to themselves something like “well whatever I don’t care let them speak whatever amongst themselves, I’ve got stuff to do anyway.”
In the moment you stop speaking their language, they’ll tune out and become disinterested because they can’t understand what you’re saying. You might want to speak their language in front of them though because why would you want someone to tune out from you.
I’m dating a Portuguese guy and his family knows how to speak english but speaks only portuguese to each other and in front of me.. I’ve realized I ‘m very annoyed and bothered by people speaking another language when I’m around, particularly in a situation like this where I’d actually care to relate and get past the superficial level of conversation.
There’s a lot of opportunities to interact that I miss out on..
All the little bits and pieces of things that go on in their dialogue are probably the most telling and interesting pieces that I miss out on when they are speaking to each other amongst themselves, whether it be about “this or that” and every stupid little thing here and there..
They go on and on and it feels so rude that I’m excluded from all this. I’d miss out on the moments in between here and there, all because they think it does not matter if they were to sneak in a word of portuguese here or there to each other and it does matter a whole lot! Just a word here and there turns into a whole day of foreign language.
My boyfriend gets pulled in to speaking it very easily then I’m all left out and quiet, bored as hell.. His father is very good though, from the very start he’d tell my boyfriend and certain people to “speak english” but that’s never been able to stick or made any lasting impression on anybody although I appreciated it. I didn’t understand until recently just how important it is.
April 13th, 2010 at 9:51 pm
I LIVE IN FLORIDA. NOW IT DOESNT MATTER TO ME WHAT LANGUAGE YOU SPEAK AT HOME OR DURING UR LEISURE TIME (INCLUDING PUBLIC PLACES); BUT WHAT I DO MIND IS WHEN IM AT WORK AND PPL ARE SPEAKING SPANISH SO LOUD THAT THE MBR ON THE PHONE CAN HEAR THEM. AT MY JOB THERE IS NO CONSIDERATION FOR ANYONE OTHER THAN HISPANICS. THATS MY ONLY PROBLEM WITH THIS JOB IS THE FACT THAT I KNOW THEYRE TALKING GOOD AND BAD ABT EVERYONE ELSE, BUT BECAUSE I AM THE MINORITY (EVEN MY BOSS IS HISPANIC) I HAVE NO SAY. BUT WHAT CAN YOU DO WHEN YOU ARE NOT IN THE LIGHT?