Dec
4
Vosotros: Should you bother to learn it?
A common misconception about Spanish is that there exists two distinct Spanish languages: Castilian Spanish (castellano) from Spain and Spanish spoken outside of Spain. I’ve heard people say that they want to learn “Latin American Spanish” not “Castilian Spanish,” as though they were completely different languages. Some language-learning products, like Rosetta Stone, reinforce this idea of separation by selling Spanish instructional products that make this distinction as well. The truth is is that the Spanish spoken in Spain and outside of Spain is the same language. It’s just that speakers’ accents, slang and some words used are different, but the underpinnings of the language and its essential structure are exactly the same.
A big reason why this misconception exists is because of the widespread use of the personal pronoun vosotros in Spain.
In Spanish there are four personal pronouns that all mean “you.” They are:
TÚ: informal, singular; USTED: formal, singular; VOSOTROS: informal, plural; and USTEDES: formal, plural.
In Spain, all four of these pronouns are used. Outside of Spain, only tú, usted and ustedes are used.
There are many Spanish-language teachers in the U.S. who don’t teach the vosotros form to their students because it’s not used in the Americas. There are also many students who decide on their own not to bother with vosotros because they figure they’ll never use it. But I think they’re making a mistake. Why? Because we live in a small world where you never know where you’ll eventually travel or whom you’ll eventually meet.
When I first came to Spain I had no clue about vosotros. I knew it existed but it wasn’t a part of my knowledge base since none of my instructors in the U.S. had made a point of emphasizing it. That meant that I landed in Spain at a distinct disadvantage. Since I didn’t know how to conjugate verbs with the vosotros ending, I frequently reverted to using the formal ustedes form, which seemed kind of odd in an informal conversation in Spain.
So if you live outside of Spain, should you learn the vosotros form of verbs? Yes. At a bare minimum, you should learn how to conjugate basic verbs with the vosotros ending so that you can at least recognize them when you hear or read them. It will make your Spanish more complete, even if it is a pronoun that you may not end up using frequently. Consider it a small gift to yourself that you’ll appreciate one day. 
I totally agree with you, and I had the same experience when I started traveling to Spain! I think it’s silly not to teach vosotros — it’s only one more conjugation, and it’s not like it’s so extremely difficult! I tell my middle schoolers it’s “optional” but include it and they are learning it with no more difficulty than any other conjugation.
Good advice. I learnt Spanish in Argentina and when I moved to Spain it took a while to change my “ways”…
I learned Spanish in Spain first, but knowing the vosotros form has actually helped me a lot in South America; in Argentina, Uruguay and a couple of other countries they use “vos” instead of “tú” (an entirely different issue), but learning this new conjugation was extremely easy because the general rule is to use the vosotros conjugation dropping the final “i” and keeping the last syllable stress (vosotros sois => vos sos, vosotros tenéis => vos tenés etc.)
As it happens, the “vosotros” form is also learned formally in several countries in schools in Latin America. Although for most of them its use is never more than written. It’s better to know vosotros even if you won’t use it because coming from the other way (changing to saying “ustedes” all the time when you are used to vosotros) is very easy since no new conjugation is needed.
Apart from very few verbs (even excluding most irregular verbs), the vosotros conjugation is almost always very easy and consistent with other third-person conjugations with -áis, -éis, -ís instead of -amos -emos, -imos etc. Hardly a huge amount of extra brain work
¡Que tengáis un buen día!
Actually, there *are* occasions where the underlying language is a bit different, one example is the use of ‘vos’ instead of ‘tú in some parts of Central and Latin-America.
The reason, I think, why ‘vosotros’ isn’t taught in most language schools in the US, is because in English there’s no such thing a distinction between formal and informal (so it doesn’t only have to do with that it’s not used in Latin-America).
To me, using tú, usted, vosotros AND ustedes is more logical. I think mainly because there’s an distinction like this in Dutch as well (jij – informal singular, u – formal singular and plural, jullie – informal plural).
There’s great inconsistency on this point, though. Teachers in the U.S. who support teaching the vosotros (which is used in only one country) would never dream of teaching the voseo (which, in its various flavors, is used in multiple countries). I suppose this comes from the idea that European speech patterns are somehow more prestigious than American ones.
Although I use the vosotros since my Spanish is decidedly European, the overwhelming majority of the Spanish used and heard in the U.S. does not use the vosotros *or* the voseo. So it makes sense to let students here know that these forms exist without necessarily forcing them to use them.
Thanks very informative.
I have a question that’s a little off subject but I would definitely appreciate any ideas/feedback that would help improve my pace when speaking. When I first begin learning Spanish, I struggled when I would try to hold a conversation with someone. It seemed like it would take me forever to get a sentence, let alone a paragraph out because some sentences seemed longer to form in Spanish than in English and vice vs. I never really knew how to keep up my pace when speaking to other Native speakers and was wondering is there a book or rule when it comes to delivery.
I have been listening to the stories from Cody’s Cuentos and find it amazing how the speaker flows while speaking. I know she is a Native Speaker and that it may take a while or I may never really reach that level but was wondering what tools I can use to help clean/speed up my pace.
P.S. Thanks for all the previous feedback, YOU GUYS ROCK!
Well, I learnt Spansih in Europe and therefore the “Spanish way”. But I have some Colombian sisters-in-law who live perfectly well without “vosotros” for many more years in Spain that myself.
Bravo Eleena, I totally agree with you, but, hey I’m Castillian, and obviously biased. The Spanish language has an informal plural pronoun: vosotros. It’s not ustedes and it’s not vos, it’s vos-otros (you-the-others, literally). And that’s simply how it is and how it should be taught anywhere, no matter if local speakers, in their colloquial speeches, use ustedes for both formal and informal (by the way, that also happens in several Spanish regions). An educated person HAS TO KNOW how to conjugate ALL four personal pronouns. As Eleena said, there’s only one Spanish language and it has ONE grammar. And that language has 4 personal pronouns. You have to learn how to conjugate them, and then, it’ll be up to you to decide when and how to use them.
Costarossa, you’re right, you can live happily in Spain without knowing the vosotros conjugation, but to many Spaniards, including me, it sounds extremely funny to hear someone using usted/ustedes with children and dogs., for instance. It just doesn’t sound serious.
Steven Capsuto, as far as I know, vos is used instead of tu, but not instead of ustedes. At least, that’s how I’ve heard my Argentinian friends use it. But I could be wrong, of course.
@Crystal; you might want to check out my blog at http://www.spanish-only.com.
(Hope you don’t mind the plug, Eleena
)
Besides, Roberto; you *are* a bit biased, but I agree with you. Why bother learning just parts of a language and leave the rest for what it is? Especially if a pretty large part – although – of its speakers use therse parts of the language. To me, using ‘ustedes’ all the time doesn’t sound funny, I actually can’t stand it. But this could be me, of course.
And oh, ‘vos’ is instead of ‘tú’. For plural they use ‘ustedes’.
Thanks y’all for the constructive and informative comments on this post. Great dialogue! (@Crystal, I sent you a private email answering your question so as not to take the topic thread off course.)
I wasn’t saying that vosotros and vos are synonyms. I was saying, however, that in the grand scheme of things, both are minority usages. I don’t see the logic of teachers in the U.S. requiring the “vosotros” (which is not considered standard anywhere in the Americas) while ignoring the voseo (which is used in several American countries). I can see the logic of skipping both and teaching the forms used in the overwhelming majority of the Spanish-speaking world (tú, usted, and ustedes). I can also see the logic of teaching both the European “vosotros” and the South American “vos.” But if you had to choose one of the minority forms to teach in the States, you’d think the vosotros wouldn’t be it.
As for whether the South American “vos” is synonymous with “tú,” that depends on where you are. In some places, there are *three* degrees of formality: vos (used with family members and extremely close friends), tú (used with classmates, coworkers, etc.) and usted (used in more formal contexts).
Steven, what can I say, I have to disagree with you. Isn’t it just strange to use the pair formal/informal for the singular but not for the plural? It doesn’t make sense to me.
I’m sorry, but I consider vosotros as part of the standard, even if it’s not used in the Americas.
Same with vos, it’s part of the standard, there’s only one Spanish language. In Spain, vos is reserved for royalty, extremely formal situations and literature. Everybody knows how to conjugate it, or at least, recognize its conjugations.
Not teaching “vosotros” because it’s “only” used in Spain, sounds really weird to me. I mean, we are talking about the Spanish language, aren’t we?
And it’s not like teaching how to conjugate “vuesa merced”, “usía”, “vuecencia” or ” voacé”, to name just a few deprecated old-fashioned personal pronouns, “Vosotros” is alive and well, 45 million use it everyday. Same with vos. Spanish students should, at least, be able to identify them and understand its usage.
Hi, I’d like to know the tips you shared with Crystal
.
Would you do a post on it for the rest of us? Apologies if you covered it elsewhere in the site.
As a self-teacher, I’m always on the look out for advice, even though I know in the end it comes down to practising the 4 language skills (leer, escuchar, habar, escribir) and time.
Gracias
[...] Voices en español : some reasons to learn vosotros. [...]
Tenéis y no tenéis razón. Y’all are right and wrong. In English they teach the standard form *you* which is singular and plural. Which Im glad Im from the south cuz we have y’all which obviously they ain’t gonna teach in schools. In English they don’t teach to students (or “foreign” learners of English for that matter) the form from just one region, for example y’all in the southern U.S. they also wouldn’t teach yous (my grampa whose from michigan would use this one) etc. What I don’t get is: they teach the form used in only one region; and why they feel the need to include it in verb charts and then not teach it. I seen my fair share of Castillian classes and if our dialect is the standard then why is it that these lesson makers etc. don’t use “standard” Castillian? Just a thought for y’all.