Comments on: Speaking Spanish with an accent http://spanish-podcast.com/2008/11/13/speaking-spanish-with-an-accent/ A bilingual blog and conversational Spanish podcast. Wed, 30 Nov 2011 02:02:48 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: eleena http://spanish-podcast.com/2008/11/13/speaking-spanish-with-an-accent/#comment-3155 eleena Mon, 17 Jan 2011 18:49:54 +0000 http://spanish-podcast.com/?p=536#comment-3155 Russ, Great comment! Love your perspective on developing a "proper" accent in a foreign language. Some people have the ability to pick up accents, no problem, while others may struggle a lifetime to shed their original native-language accent when speaking their 2nd or 3rd languages. Look at someone like Arnold Schwarznegger or Arianna Huffington. They've probably both lived more of their lives in the U.S. than in their homelands and they both speak with noticeable accents that make it clear that they are not native English speakers. But they are completely fluent in English and are able to communicate with zero problems. In fact, their way of speaking has become part of their persona. So not being able to shed one's original accent isn't always such a bad thing because it makes you unique. Thank you for sharing your experience. Saludos, Eleena Russ,
Great comment! Love your perspective on developing a “proper” accent in a foreign language. Some people have the ability to pick up accents, no problem, while others may struggle a lifetime to shed their original native-language accent when speaking their 2nd or 3rd languages. Look at someone like Arnold Schwarznegger or Arianna Huffington. They’ve probably both lived more of their lives in the U.S. than in their homelands and they both speak with noticeable accents that make it clear that they are not native English speakers. But they are completely fluent in English and are able to communicate with zero problems. In fact, their way of speaking has become part of their persona. So not being able to shed one’s original accent isn’t always such a bad thing because it makes you unique.

Thank you for sharing your experience.

Saludos,
Eleena

]]> By: Russ http://spanish-podcast.com/2008/11/13/speaking-spanish-with-an-accent/#comment-3154 Russ Mon, 17 Jan 2011 18:38:35 +0000 http://spanish-podcast.com/?p=536#comment-3154 I learned Portuguese as a second language and Spanish as a third in my 50s, and lived in Brazil a year. My first couple years with it was almost total immersion and using recordings. What I discovered is that few friends want or wish to correct speech, especially Brazilians who tend to be easy going. My feedback was always positive, and any accent I had was described as charming. It was only when I came back to the US and would encounter strangers who spoke Portuguese that I realized my accent was a problem and not cute. I have even been told I speak in a thick German accent. Then I went to Antigua, Guatemala for Spanish courses, and was told I sounded more like a Brazilian than a Gringo. In Spain I was told I sounded like an Italian. This goes on and on. So at one point I picked up the Brazilian audiobook "1808" in Portuguese, read the book, and then would mimic the superb voice of Laurentino Gomes. To my ear I started to sound like him. The problem is that he is very formal, proper sounding, and now Brazilians look at me funny because they speak in sing-sing style. The bottom line is that unless you are exposed young and for a long time, you will never get all intonations, pronunciations and syllable timing correctly. Despite your efforts your brain will revert back to the English sounds you learned as a child, especially if you need to speak full sentences and quickly. In fact if you try to hard to alter it, you end up sounding even quirkier. I also discovered that some people aren't interested in hearing accented foreign languages. On reflection I will admit I was that way until I poured my heart and soul into language learning. Now I am patient to a tee with foreign speakers. I thought that people would appreciate an American speaking their tongue. Some, really many could give a rat, others do like it, but it is not universal and that is hard to accept. Just the nature of people really. I learned Portuguese as a second language and Spanish as a third in my 50s, and lived in Brazil a year. My first couple years with it was almost total immersion and using recordings. What I discovered is that few friends want or wish to correct speech, especially Brazilians who tend to be easy going. My feedback was always positive, and any accent I had was described as charming.

It was only when I came back to the US and would encounter strangers who spoke Portuguese that I realized my accent was a problem and not cute. I have even been told I speak in a thick German accent.

Then I went to Antigua, Guatemala for Spanish courses, and was told I sounded more like a Brazilian than a Gringo. In Spain I was told I sounded like an Italian. This goes on and on.

So at one point I picked up the Brazilian audiobook “1808″ in Portuguese, read the book, and then would mimic the superb voice of Laurentino Gomes. To my ear I started to sound like him. The problem is that he is very formal, proper sounding, and now Brazilians look at me funny because they speak in sing-sing style.

The bottom line is that unless you are exposed young and for a long time, you will never get all intonations, pronunciations and syllable timing correctly. Despite your efforts your brain will revert back to the English sounds you learned as a child, especially if you need to speak full sentences and quickly. In fact if you try to hard to alter it, you end up sounding even quirkier.

I also discovered that some people aren’t interested in hearing accented foreign languages. On reflection I will admit I was that way until I poured my heart and soul into language learning. Now I am patient to a tee with foreign speakers. I thought that people would appreciate an American speaking their tongue. Some, really many could give a rat, others do like it, but it is not universal and that is hard to accept. Just the nature of people really.

]]> By: Lisa http://spanish-podcast.com/2008/11/13/speaking-spanish-with-an-accent/#comment-2987 Lisa Fri, 02 Jul 2010 15:50:13 +0000 http://spanish-podcast.com/?p=536#comment-2987 I am an American learning Spanish in Spain. I knew only the basics of Spanish before arriving here, and since then I have been learning by only listening to people here and speaking with them. As a result, my American accent is barely noticeable. It is so slight that several people have mistaken me for a French, Italian or Spanish girl after they listen to me say only a few things! (maybe this is because I speak Spanish mostly only with people of these nationalities. with Americans I usually speak English) However, my grammar is very limited, and when I learn a new word on my own by looking it up, the American accent is thicker on that word. I say try to learn a lot and get rid of the native language accent! But you can only do what you can do...it is difficult to get rid of the accent if you are practicing with other Americans, because you pick up the accents of the people around you. I am an American learning Spanish in Spain. I knew only the basics of Spanish before arriving here, and since then I have been learning by only listening to people here and speaking with them. As a result, my American accent is barely noticeable. It is so slight that several people have mistaken me for a French, Italian or Spanish girl after they listen to me say only a few things! (maybe this is because I speak Spanish mostly only with people of these nationalities. with Americans I usually speak English) However, my grammar is very limited, and when I learn a new word on my own by looking it up, the American accent is thicker on that word. I say try to learn a lot and get rid of the native language accent! But you can only do what you can do…it is difficult to get rid of the accent if you are practicing with other Americans, because you pick up the accents of the people around you.

]]> By: Ash http://spanish-podcast.com/2008/11/13/speaking-spanish-with-an-accent/#comment-2041 Ash Mon, 23 Feb 2009 03:06:41 +0000 http://spanish-podcast.com/?p=536#comment-2041 I'm an american learning spanish and a lot of times I pronounce my spanish with an american accent, one of this example of this is that at many times, I forget to roll my RRs, I also speak with the american tone whenever I speak spanish (You know what the 'american tone' is, right?). I don't think I'd ever be able to lose my american accent. I’m an american learning spanish and a lot of times I pronounce my spanish with an american accent, one of this example of this is that at many times, I forget to roll my RRs, I also speak with the american tone whenever I speak spanish (You know what the ‘american tone’ is, right?). I don’t think I’d ever be able to lose my american accent.

]]> By: costarossa http://spanish-podcast.com/2008/11/13/speaking-spanish-with-an-accent/#comment-1823 costarossa Fri, 05 Dec 2008 10:25:31 +0000 http://spanish-podcast.com/?p=536#comment-1823 Ken, this is a really really good piece of advice, and I mean particularly starting early because indeed bad habits are very difficult to change. Which are the other four languages you speak and which is your native one? This is fascinating! Also, I think that the more languages you learn, the easier it gets in every new one, even with the pronunciation, because the combinations of sounds are not limitless and quite often they repeat. E.g., Spanish pronunciation was quite easy for me as I am Russian as the very same interdental t and d which present such a difficulty for some native English speakers were a piece of cake to me while I still have not mastered some sounds in the English language after more than 15 years of speaking it rather well. Ken, this is a really really good piece of advice, and I mean particularly starting early because indeed bad habits are very difficult to change.

Which are the other four languages you speak and which is your native one? This is fascinating! Also, I think that the more languages you learn, the easier it gets in every new one, even with the pronunciation, because the combinations of sounds are not limitless and quite often they repeat. E.g., Spanish pronunciation was quite easy for me as I am Russian as the very same interdental t and d which present such a difficulty for some native English speakers were a piece of cake to me while I still have not mastered some sounds in the English language after more than 15 years of speaking it rather well.

]]> By: Ken http://spanish-podcast.com/2008/11/13/speaking-spanish-with-an-accent/#comment-1820 Ken Fri, 05 Dec 2008 03:42:19 +0000 http://spanish-podcast.com/?p=536#comment-1820 I have studied four different languages, and consider myself quiet fluent in two of them. In all four languages, I have had many compliments from native speakers on how good my accent was. I have also known many people who were learning languages, and thought about their approaches and the problems they were having. Many language learners and even teachers, seem to think that having a good accent is out of their control. They think that some people are "natural mimics", and that if they or their students are not, it can't be helped. If you think like this, then it is natural to minimize the importance of having a good accent. After all, if it can't be helped, why not concentrate on other things and accept your own, or your students limitations? My own experience in learning languages and watching how others learn them has convinced me that the above position is totally incorrect. It's important to have a good accent, and nearly everyone can achieve this by working hard and, most importantly, by working smart. I would also add that the way to get a "good" accent, is to strive for a "perfect" accent. Those people who say, "I am happy as long as people can understand me" usually have such bad pronunciation as to hinder communication. If you agree with the above, the next question is: "How does one get a good accent?" Here are my suggestions: -Start sooner rather than later. Its much easier to start with good habits rather than try to correct established bad habits. In fact, ideally, you should start working on pronunciation ever before really starting to learn the language. However, if you have already developed bad habits, go back to the beginning and start all over again. You can always improve. -First read up on the sound system of the language. You should know for instance that, in Spanish, the /t/ sound and /d/ sounds are dental, and that an intervocalic /d/ sound is pronounced with the tongue in between your teeth, and very softly. Keep studying this kind of stuff and thinking about it as you make your attempts to imitate native speakers. -Start with single words and progress to short sentences. Only pronounce them immediately after a sound clip of a native speaker, or a native speaker. Concentrate on the sounds you are making, worry about the meanings later. You need full concentration for this kind of work. Try to hear the sounds as a baby might, without any reference to English sounds. -Do your best to find native speakers who are willing to criticize your attempts. Don't be satisfied until they can't tell that you are not a native speaker by your pronunciation. But remember, you are not engaging in free conversation here. All you have to do is to perfectly "echo" your model words and sentences. A beginner might spend six weeks or so doing this sort of thing before taking up the study of the language proper. If you are not a beginner in the language, and have developed bad habits, it will take longer than six weeks. -Once you can do the above, you can start to concentrate on other aspects of the language. But take utmost care not to fall back into previous bad habits. Use audio sources of the language as much as possible and "echo" thousands, tens of thousands, of sentences out loud. Use audio-books instead of printed books. Avoid listening to non-native speakers. You might spend several thousand hours at this before moving on to the "output" phase. Your native-speaker model sentences will, by definition, have perfect grammar and pronunciation. As you learn to "echo" massive number of them easily and perfectly, you are ensuring that your eventual free conversation will have minimal errors. Finally, remember that there is a difference between being able to perfectly imitate a given native-speaker sentence, and being able to engage in free conversation with no accent. Your "perfect" imitative accent will tend to drift, especially if you are speaking lots of English or other languages. But the point is, if you have developed the skill of easily and perfectly repeating any typical native-speaker sentence, then your free efforts should remain close to the ideal, and you will have a very good accent. I have studied four different languages, and consider myself quiet fluent in two of them. In all four languages, I have had many compliments from native speakers on how good my accent was. I have also known many people who were learning languages, and thought about their approaches and the problems they were having.

Many language learners and even teachers, seem to think that having a good accent is out of their control. They think that some people are “natural mimics”, and that if they or their students are not, it can’t be helped. If you think like this, then it is natural to minimize the importance of having a good accent. After all, if it can’t be helped, why not concentrate on other things and accept your own, or your students limitations?

My own experience in learning languages and watching how others learn them has convinced me that the above position is totally incorrect. It’s important to have a good accent, and nearly everyone can achieve this by working hard and, most importantly, by working smart. I would also add that the way to get a “good” accent, is to strive for a “perfect” accent. Those people who say, “I am happy as long as people can understand me” usually have such bad pronunciation as to hinder communication.

If you agree with the above, the next question is: “How does one get a good accent?” Here are my suggestions:

-Start sooner rather than later. Its much easier to start with good habits rather than try to correct established bad habits. In fact, ideally, you should start working on pronunciation ever before really starting to learn the language. However, if you have already developed bad habits, go back to the beginning and start all over again. You can always improve.

-First read up on the sound system of the language. You should know for instance that, in Spanish, the /t/ sound and /d/ sounds are dental, and that an intervocalic /d/ sound is pronounced with the tongue in between your teeth, and very softly. Keep studying this kind of stuff and thinking about it as you make your attempts to imitate native speakers.

-Start with single words and progress to short sentences. Only pronounce them immediately after a sound clip of a native speaker, or a native speaker. Concentrate on the sounds you are making, worry about the meanings later. You need full concentration for this kind of work. Try to hear the sounds as a baby might, without any reference to English sounds.

-Do your best to find native speakers who are willing to criticize your attempts. Don’t be satisfied until they can’t tell that you are not a native speaker by your pronunciation. But remember, you are not engaging in free conversation here. All you have to do is to perfectly “echo” your model words and sentences. A beginner might spend six weeks or so doing this sort of thing before taking up the study of the language proper. If you are not a beginner in the language, and have developed bad habits, it will take longer than six weeks.

-Once you can do the above, you can start to concentrate on other aspects of the language. But take utmost care not to fall back into previous bad habits. Use audio sources of the language as much as possible and “echo” thousands, tens of thousands, of sentences out loud. Use audio-books instead of printed books. Avoid listening to non-native speakers. You might spend several thousand hours at this before moving on to the “output” phase. Your native-speaker model sentences will, by definition, have perfect grammar and pronunciation. As you learn to “echo” massive number of them easily and perfectly, you are ensuring that your eventual free conversation will have minimal errors.

Finally, remember that there is a difference between being able to perfectly imitate a given native-speaker sentence, and being able to engage in free conversation with no accent. Your “perfect” imitative accent will tend to drift, especially if you are speaking lots of English or other languages. But the point is, if you have developed the skill of easily and perfectly repeating any typical native-speaker sentence, then your free efforts should remain close to the ideal, and you will have a very good accent.

]]> By: Crystal http://spanish-podcast.com/2008/11/13/speaking-spanish-with-an-accent/#comment-1783 Crystal Wed, 26 Nov 2008 00:16:53 +0000 http://spanish-podcast.com/?p=536#comment-1783 Thanks Eleena, that was very uplifting. Actually, I find it intersting to hear every aspect because it helps my pace, so by all means stay open/honest and keep it coming = ) Thanks Eleena, that was very uplifting. Actually, I find it intersting to hear every aspect because it helps my pace, so by all means stay open/honest and keep it coming = )

]]> By: eleena http://spanish-podcast.com/2008/11/13/speaking-spanish-with-an-accent/#comment-1782 eleena Tue, 25 Nov 2008 17:35:39 +0000 http://spanish-podcast.com/?p=536#comment-1782 Hi Crystal, Don't be discouraged. I posed the original question specifically to make the poll more interesting but in real life, of course, it is possible to have the best of both worlds -- an authentic accent and a large vocabulary. In fact there are many non-native Spanish speakers who have successfully achieved that goal and people marvel at their linguistic dexterity. My point with this blog entry wasn't to make people feel bad about their accents in Spanish. Instead I just wanted to raise the point that sometimes people spend so much time and effort on learning the mechanics and the structures of Spanish but devote zero attention to their pronunciation. As long as you're aware that pronunciation and intonation is an important aspect of mastering a foreign language and it's something that you're paying attention to in your own Spanish studies, there's no reason at all for you to feel depressed or discouraged by that. That knowledge will help you in the long run. Suerte y ¡ánimo! Eleena Hi Crystal,
Don’t be discouraged. I posed the original question specifically to make the poll more interesting but in real life, of course, it is possible to have the best of both worlds — an authentic accent and a large vocabulary. In fact there are many non-native Spanish speakers who have successfully achieved that goal and people marvel at their linguistic dexterity.

My point with this blog entry wasn’t to make people feel bad about their accents in Spanish. Instead I just wanted to raise the point that sometimes people spend so much time and effort on learning the mechanics and the structures of Spanish but devote zero attention to their pronunciation.

As long as you’re aware that pronunciation and intonation is an important aspect of mastering a foreign language and it’s something that you’re paying attention to in your own Spanish studies, there’s no reason at all for you to feel depressed or discouraged by that. That knowledge will help you in the long run.

Suerte y ¡ánimo!

Eleena

]]> By: Crystal http://spanish-podcast.com/2008/11/13/speaking-spanish-with-an-accent/#comment-1781 Crystal Tue, 25 Nov 2008 16:18:36 +0000 http://spanish-podcast.com/?p=536#comment-1781 I am currently studying Spanish and feel a little discouraged because it sounds like it's impossible to master the accent well enough to sound authentic. I know I will never have a perfect accent but if I imerse myself well enough is it possible for me to gain both. Meaning, the Accent and Vocabulary? Based on what I've read, why is it one or the other (great accent yet bad vocabulary and vice vs)? I am currently studying Spanish and feel a little discouraged because it sounds like it’s impossible to master the accent well enough to sound authentic. I know I will never have a perfect accent but if I imerse myself well enough is it possible for me to gain both. Meaning, the Accent and Vocabulary? Based on what I’ve read, why is it one or the other (great accent yet bad vocabulary and vice vs)?

]]> By: Andrew http://spanish-podcast.com/2008/11/13/speaking-spanish-with-an-accent/#comment-1767 Andrew Thu, 20 Nov 2008 23:13:47 +0000 http://spanish-podcast.com/?p=536#comment-1767 @Ramses : I can't believe you would shut down because a guiri cant pronounce the rolled R. That's so elitist. We aren't all perfect. That kind of attitude is really discouraging and you obviously have no respect or regard for the people you talk to. @Ramses : I can’t believe you would shut down because a guiri cant pronounce the rolled R. That’s so elitist. We aren’t all perfect.

That kind of attitude is really discouraging and you obviously have no respect or regard for the people you talk to.

]]> By: Karen http://spanish-podcast.com/2008/11/13/speaking-spanish-with-an-accent/#comment-1751 Karen Tue, 18 Nov 2008 13:59:24 +0000 http://spanish-podcast.com/?p=536#comment-1751 It's almost impossible to really get rid of an accent, but you have to be able to pronounce a language in a way that native speakers can understand what you are saying! I have a friend who is very smart and who actually speaks English pretty well. But his accent is so thick that it is extremely difficult to understand what he is saying. He was unable after repeated tries to pass a test of spoken English in order to get a professional license in the US and ended up finally leaving the country. I think underneath it he really had the attitude that his accent was "okay" and that English speakers just needed to make more of an effort to understand him. But in fact his accent was just awful, which he never really admitted to himself. Your accent doesn't have to be perfect but it has to be acceptable. It’s almost impossible to really get rid of an accent, but you have to be able to pronounce a language in a way that native speakers can understand what you are saying! I have a friend who is very smart and who actually speaks English pretty well. But his accent is so thick that it is extremely difficult to understand what he is saying. He was unable after repeated tries to pass a test of spoken English in order to get a professional license in the US and ended up finally leaving the country. I think underneath it he really had the attitude that his accent was “okay” and that English speakers just needed to make more of an effort to understand him. But in fact his accent was just awful, which he never really admitted to himself. Your accent doesn’t have to be perfect but it has to be acceptable.

]]> By: Carl http://spanish-podcast.com/2008/11/13/speaking-spanish-with-an-accent/#comment-1742 Carl Sun, 16 Nov 2008 16:03:51 +0000 http://spanish-podcast.com/?p=536#comment-1742 Interesting discussion. I want to clarify my thoughts though. I think it is the very rare individual who can eliminate his native accent altogether when speaking in a foreign language. Ramses might be able to do it because he is from Holland ... I don't mind having an accent, but I want my pronunciation and intonation to be "pretty good". You have to pronounce the words correctly in a foreign language. If you do not pronounce the Spanish vowels, for example - you are not speaking Spanish. I just hope people say,"Well, he is obviously not Spanish, but where is he from?" Interesting discussion. I want to clarify my thoughts though. I think it is the very rare individual who can eliminate his native accent altogether when speaking in a foreign language. Ramses might be able to do it because he is from Holland …

I don’t mind having an accent, but I want my pronunciation and intonation to be “pretty good”. You have to pronounce the words correctly in a foreign language. If you do not pronounce the Spanish vowels, for example – you are not speaking Spanish.

I just hope people say,”Well, he is obviously not Spanish, but where is he from?”

]]> By: Ramses http://spanish-podcast.com/2008/11/13/speaking-spanish-with-an-accent/#comment-1741 Ramses Sun, 16 Nov 2008 14:27:34 +0000 http://spanish-podcast.com/?p=536#comment-1741 And oh. Yes, I have a slight accent in Spanish. I master all the possible sounds there are in Spanish, but somehow you can hear I'm Dutch. That's no problem, because it's just a really small part of my pronunciation. It'd be good to get rid of that last obstacle, but it doesn't hinder me in any way. That's what learners should aim for: that you can communicate on the same level with natives. And yes, that includes taking care of a strong accent. And oh. Yes, I have a slight accent in Spanish. I master all the possible sounds there are in Spanish, but somehow you can hear I’m Dutch. That’s no problem, because it’s just a really small part of my pronunciation. It’d be good to get rid of that last obstacle, but it doesn’t hinder me in any way. That’s what learners should aim for: that you can communicate on the same level with natives. And yes, that includes taking care of a strong accent.

]]> By: Ramses http://spanish-podcast.com/2008/11/13/speaking-spanish-with-an-accent/#comment-1740 Ramses Sun, 16 Nov 2008 14:25:17 +0000 http://spanish-podcast.com/?p=536#comment-1740 I'm not saying that an accent is bad, be let it be slight. Having a heavy accent will ruin the rest of your language skills because almost no one will understand you. Real life example: guiris who can't pronounce the R. Ok, I'm a bit used to it, but it annoys me. When someone talks to me with an accent like that, I simply shut down and stop listening to that person. Imagine natives. That's an example of having an accent that prevents you from communicating. Having an accent is only acceptable when it doesn't hinder you from communicating with natives. That doesn't take away that if you're serious you can and should work on all aspects of the language. Taking the guys of Antimoon.com and Khatzumoto or aaljapaneseallthetime.com as example: they have a native accent, but everything else is native or near-native as well. So people can talk circles around them, and they'll understand perfectly and be able to respond. They decided they wanted to learn a language as a whole, not just parts of it. Why should you be a master in everything except the accent? Isn't that plain weird? I’m not saying that an accent is bad, be let it be slight. Having a heavy accent will ruin the rest of your language skills because almost no one will understand you.

Real life example: guiris who can’t pronounce the R. Ok, I’m a bit used to it, but it annoys me. When someone talks to me with an accent like that, I simply shut down and stop listening to that person. Imagine natives. That’s an example of having an accent that prevents you from communicating. Having an accent is only acceptable when it doesn’t hinder you from communicating with natives. That doesn’t take away that if you’re serious you can and should work on all aspects of the language.

Taking the guys of Antimoon.com and Khatzumoto or aaljapaneseallthetime.com as example: they have a native accent, but everything else is native or near-native as well. So people can talk circles around them, and they’ll understand perfectly and be able to respond. They decided they wanted to learn a language as a whole, not just parts of it. Why should you be a master in everything except the accent? Isn’t that plain weird?

]]> By: Sereda http://spanish-podcast.com/2008/11/13/speaking-spanish-with-an-accent/#comment-1739 Sereda Sun, 16 Nov 2008 14:06:45 +0000 http://spanish-podcast.com/?p=536#comment-1739 Am I right in inferring that the desire to sound exactly like a native is a bit of a competitive thing? Unless it inhibits comprehension, or you're in a place where people are particularly hostile to foriegners why would having an accent be a problem? My mother-in-law spoke English with a strong Spanish accent. She had a wider vocabulary than many native English speakers and a near perfect grasp of English grammar but she never lost her accent. I'm sure I wasn't alone in thinking she sounded charming. Not having an accent can actually work against you. I'm thinking here of a friend of mine who spent several months in France. He put most of his efforts into learning how to sound like a local and he picked up the local accent perfectly. However, once he'd done that, he found people assumed he was French. They spoke quickly, used slang and made none of the allowances they would have if they'd known he wasn't a native speaker. He told me he often took part in conversations where he had only the vaguest notion of what was being said. For me, there's nothing shameful or embarrassing about speaking a foreign language with an accent, as long as I can make myself understood. That said, I would prefer it to be a slight accent and I'd like to learn how to say things correctly and be corrected if I get things wrong. I'm just assuming that if I keep working at it, I'll get better at speaking Spanish gradually, as my ear becomes more attuned to the rythms and the sounds. Getting completely hung up on this one aspect of language learning seems like a bad idea. I'm sure worrying about your accent would inhibit you from speaking and that would probably slow progress in the long run. I'd rather be able to communicate what I want to say imperfectly than be able to produce a limited range of phrases perfectly. Am I right in inferring that the desire to sound exactly like a native is a bit of a competitive thing? Unless it inhibits comprehension, or you’re in a place where people are particularly hostile to foriegners why would having an accent be a problem?
My mother-in-law spoke English with a strong Spanish accent. She had a wider vocabulary than many native English speakers and a near perfect grasp of English grammar but she never lost her accent. I’m sure I wasn’t alone in thinking she sounded charming.
Not having an accent can actually work against you. I’m thinking here of a friend of mine who spent several months in France. He put most of his efforts into learning how to sound like a local and he picked up the local accent perfectly. However, once he’d done that, he found people assumed he was French. They spoke quickly, used slang and made none of the allowances they would have if they’d known he wasn’t a native speaker. He told me he often took part in conversations where he had only the vaguest notion of what was being said.
For me, there’s nothing shameful or embarrassing about speaking a foreign language with an accent, as long as I can make myself understood. That said, I would prefer it to be a slight accent and I’d like to learn how to say things correctly and be corrected if I get things wrong. I’m just assuming that if I keep working at it, I’ll get better at speaking Spanish gradually, as my ear becomes more attuned to the rythms and the sounds.
Getting completely hung up on this one aspect of language learning seems like a bad idea. I’m sure worrying about your accent would inhibit you from speaking and that would probably slow progress in the long run. I’d rather be able to communicate what I want to say imperfectly than be able to produce a limited range of phrases perfectly.

]]> By: Ramses http://spanish-podcast.com/2008/11/13/speaking-spanish-with-an-accent/#comment-1738 Ramses Sun, 16 Nov 2008 08:10:13 +0000 http://spanish-podcast.com/?p=536#comment-1738 @Master Thon; You can say Krashen's ideas have been questioned, but for self-study they've proven to be pure gold. The most succesful self-teachers used the input method and are fluent now without an accent. Pure luck, or does this mean that there's something right about the theory of Krashen? I'm not denying that there are other methods out there that work, there simply are. But Krashen's ideas (and that of many others that are similair) have proven to work without the need of painstaking memorizing plus it takes care of most of the accent (yes, even with Krashen's method there are people with a slight accent, but not that strong that it's disturbing). I recommend everyone to read www.antimoon.com. @Master Thon;
You can say Krashen’s ideas have been questioned, but for self-study they’ve proven to be pure gold. The most succesful self-teachers used the input method and are fluent now without an accent. Pure luck, or does this mean that there’s something right about the theory of Krashen?

I’m not denying that there are other methods out there that work, there simply are. But Krashen’s ideas (and that of many others that are similair) have proven to work without the need of painstaking memorizing plus it takes care of most of the accent (yes, even with Krashen’s method there are people with a slight accent, but not that strong that it’s disturbing).

I recommend everyone to read http://www.antimoon.com.

]]> By: Sandra http://spanish-podcast.com/2008/11/13/speaking-spanish-with-an-accent/#comment-1737 Sandra Sun, 16 Nov 2008 04:13:09 +0000 http://spanish-podcast.com/?p=536#comment-1737 Unless a person has the resources to have some serious speech lessons, it is difficult to get rid of an accent. I have lived in the States for almost 20 years, and I am aware that I still have a strong accent. I make a great effort to be understood and try to pronounce my words as correctly as I can. I also agree with the previous poster: everyone learns language in different ways. So, pronouncing correctly is important, but having an extense vocabulary and be able to communicate in various situations is important as well. Unless a person has the resources to have some serious speech lessons, it is difficult to get rid of an accent.

I have lived in the States for almost 20 years, and I am aware that I still have a strong accent. I make a great effort to be understood and try to pronounce my words as correctly as I can.

I also agree with the previous poster: everyone learns language in different ways. So, pronouncing correctly is important, but having an extense vocabulary and be able to communicate in various situations is important as well.

]]> By: Master Thon http://spanish-podcast.com/2008/11/13/speaking-spanish-with-an-accent/#comment-1735 Master Thon Sat, 15 Nov 2008 23:50:35 +0000 http://spanish-podcast.com/?p=536#comment-1735 Changing accents is not as easy as you think and it's the short path to frustration. There is nothing wrong with speaking with an accent. What we need to worry about is being clear to our listeners. That's where we, language teachers have a responsibility, do we devote enough time to practicing pronunciation (intonation, rhythm, stress) or are we to worried about thinking a language is simply a set of syntactic rules? All your worries are valid. Now, in language classes we get all kinds of people and personalities. Why keep an active, extrovert student from talking? Theory is not all... we are dealing with human beings, not mathematical formulae. Some ideas from research in areas of second language acquisition, psycholinguistics, language teaching research is valid, but not for everyone. That's just one of the important things about research: it can be proved wrong. Some students are good at getting pronunciation on day 1, others struggle for a longer period of time. But there's nothing to worry about, as language instructors, we should be aware of how different our students are and tend to their needs. My recommendation? Try speaking the language as naturally as possible, the way natives do, from the very beginning, class 1, day 1. And remember, when speaking a language we always negotiate meaning, even in our native languages. Ramses, Krashen's ideas have been questioned already. Greetings. Changing accents is not as easy as you think and it’s the short path to frustration. There is nothing wrong with speaking with an accent. What we need to worry about is being clear to our listeners. That’s where we, language teachers have a responsibility, do we devote enough time to practicing pronunciation (intonation, rhythm, stress) or are we to worried about thinking a language is simply a set of syntactic rules? All your worries are valid. Now, in language classes we get all kinds of people and personalities. Why keep an active, extrovert student from talking? Theory is not all… we are dealing with human beings, not mathematical formulae. Some ideas from research in areas of second language acquisition, psycholinguistics, language teaching research is valid, but not for everyone. That’s just one of the important things about research: it can be proved wrong. Some students are good at getting pronunciation on day 1, others struggle for a longer period of time. But there’s nothing to worry about, as language instructors, we should be aware of how different our students are and tend to their needs.
My recommendation? Try speaking the language as naturally as possible, the way natives do, from the very beginning, class 1, day 1. And remember, when speaking a language we always negotiate meaning, even in our native languages.
Ramses, Krashen’s ideas have been questioned already. Greetings.

]]> By: Ramses http://spanish-podcast.com/2008/11/13/speaking-spanish-with-an-accent/#comment-1732 Ramses Sat, 15 Nov 2008 15:13:25 +0000 http://spanish-podcast.com/?p=536#comment-1732 Speaking too soon has nothing to do with avoiding shyness. It's simply a myth, because it'll go automatically after a while and you'll be more confident to speak as your pronunciation will be better, you grammar will be better and you'll also know more words. The problem is that language classes let people think that you can become fluent with only 5 to 10 hours studying per week. They also let people think that you learn from speaking, but this is not true. How can you learn from producing if you didn't get enough input yet? Research shows that input gets into the 'slow memory', and the only thing speaking and writing does is getting the knowledge from the 'slow memory' into the 'fast memory', which is needed to speak and write fast enough. But first it has to be in the slow memory. Speaking too soon has nothing to do with avoiding shyness. It’s simply a myth, because it’ll go automatically after a while and you’ll be more confident to speak as your pronunciation will be better, you grammar will be better and you’ll also know more words.

The problem is that language classes let people think that you can become fluent with only 5 to 10 hours studying per week. They also let people think that you learn from speaking, but this is not true. How can you learn from producing if you didn’t get enough input yet? Research shows that input gets into the ‘slow memory’, and the only thing speaking and writing does is getting the knowledge from the ‘slow memory’ into the ‘fast memory’, which is needed to speak and write fast enough. But first it has to be in the slow memory.

]]> By: Edwin http://spanish-podcast.com/2008/11/13/speaking-spanish-with-an-accent/#comment-1731 Edwin Sat, 15 Nov 2008 14:46:35 +0000 http://spanish-podcast.com/?p=536#comment-1731 No doubt pronunciation is important, but there is no way to master it in a short period of time. I would say we should all learn the correct pronunciation, but be fully aware of the fact that accent is something that we cannot easily get rid of. For the majority of us, accent will stick with us for life. No doubt pronunciation is important, but there is no way to master it in a short period of time. I would say we should all learn the correct pronunciation, but be fully aware of the fact that accent is something that we cannot easily get rid of. For the majority of us, accent will stick with us for life.

]]> By: Should you work on your pronunciation? | Spanish Only http://spanish-podcast.com/2008/11/13/speaking-spanish-with-an-accent/#comment-1730 Should you work on your pronunciation? | Spanish Only Sat, 15 Nov 2008 14:11:26 +0000 http://spanish-podcast.com/?p=536#comment-1730 [...] * Poll is at the bottom of the post [...] [...] * Poll is at the bottom of the post [...]

]]> By: James http://spanish-podcast.com/2008/11/13/speaking-spanish-with-an-accent/#comment-1724 James Sat, 15 Nov 2008 06:03:28 +0000 http://spanish-podcast.com/?p=536#comment-1724 In response to Ramses: To be fair, I know plenty of native English speakers who certainly don't speak it correctly, and that doesn't stop them from talking. While I agree pronunciation is crucial, no one should be discouraged from trying. I may only know 50 words, but I would rather excel with those 50 words than be too shy to speak 1000. Sure, we should be able to properly pronounce those 50 words, but I believe the sooner one starts challenging themselves to speak the better. I regret that I was so timid in my high school years that I rarely spoke in my foreign language classes. When it came to reading and writing I did very well, but I was always afraid to speak, for exactly the reasons we are discussing. I was worried I sounded funny. Of course the only way to improve is to practice practice practice. Today, my pronunciation has improved quite a bit, but I imagine had I been pushed to speak even the few words I knew then I would be much better off today. In response to Ramses: To be fair, I know plenty of native English speakers who certainly don’t speak it correctly, and that doesn’t stop them from talking. While I agree pronunciation is crucial, no one should be discouraged from trying. I may only know 50 words, but I would rather excel with those 50 words than be too shy to speak 1000. Sure, we should be able to properly pronounce those 50 words, but I believe the sooner one starts challenging themselves to speak the better. I regret that I was so timid in my high school years that I rarely spoke in my foreign language classes. When it came to reading and writing I did very well, but I was always afraid to speak, for exactly the reasons we are discussing. I was worried I sounded funny. Of course the only way to improve is to practice practice practice. Today, my pronunciation has improved quite a bit, but I imagine had I been pushed to speak even the few words I knew then I would be much better off today.

]]> By: Ramses http://spanish-podcast.com/2008/11/13/speaking-spanish-with-an-accent/#comment-1723 Ramses Fri, 14 Nov 2008 21:31:57 +0000 http://spanish-podcast.com/?p=536#comment-1723 As a teacher, I say: no matter what other people say, pronunciation is one of the most important, if not the most important thing a learner should work on. Like you said, knowing a sh*tload of words and having a flawless 'grammar-feeling' won't compensate a messed up pronunciation. People aren't going to understand you, or worse: they will shut down and stop listening to you. The thing is, you can always fix a lack of vocab and to a lesser extent grammatical errors, but learning the right pronunciation after you acquired a bad one is really hard, and I'm an expert on this because I've been there. I think the main reason why people have a bad accent is because they focus on speaking way too soon. Why would you use the 50 words/phrases you know? Unless you can produce them with a more or less correct accent, you shouldn't produce. This will only breed your bad pronunciation which it lethal. Focos on listening first, *know* what you should sound like. If the time is there to speak, you'll know it. This may sound weird, but eventually you'll start producing because you're ready to do so. This will save you some serious time and a lot of stress because your accent will be better than most other annoying guiris. About discouraging people from learning Spanish: is it even worth learning a language if you don't speak it correctly? Appearently you don't really speak it yet at that point and you should focus on the things you don't master. Only then you can call yourself a true learner and eventually a speaker. But Carl already said this so I have to agree with him :-). As a teacher, I say: no matter what other people say, pronunciation is one of the most important, if not the most important thing a learner should work on. Like you said, knowing a sh*tload of words and having a flawless ‘grammar-feeling’ won’t compensate a messed up pronunciation. People aren’t going to understand you, or worse: they will shut down and stop listening to you.

The thing is, you can always fix a lack of vocab and to a lesser extent grammatical errors, but learning the right pronunciation after you acquired a bad one is really hard, and I’m an expert on this because I’ve been there.

I think the main reason why people have a bad accent is because they focus on speaking way too soon. Why would you use the 50 words/phrases you know? Unless you can produce them with a more or less correct accent, you shouldn’t produce. This will only breed your bad pronunciation which it lethal. Focos on listening first, *know* what you should sound like. If the time is there to speak, you’ll know it. This may sound weird, but eventually you’ll start producing because you’re ready to do so. This will save you some serious time and a lot of stress because your accent will be better than most other annoying guiris.

About discouraging people from learning Spanish: is it even worth learning a language if you don’t speak it correctly? Appearently you don’t really speak it yet at that point and you should focus on the things you don’t master. Only then you can call yourself a true learner and eventually a speaker. But Carl already said this so I have to agree with him :-) .

]]> By: Carl http://spanish-podcast.com/2008/11/13/speaking-spanish-with-an-accent/#comment-1722 Carl Fri, 14 Nov 2008 16:23:40 +0000 http://spanish-podcast.com/?p=536#comment-1722 Actually I want to step it up a notch. I don't think you have learned a language without doing the accent and intonation - at least pretty darn well. Actually I want to step it up a notch. I don’t think you have learned a language without doing the accent and intonation – at least pretty darn well.

]]> By: Carl http://spanish-podcast.com/2008/11/13/speaking-spanish-with-an-accent/#comment-1721 Carl Fri, 14 Nov 2008 16:08:00 +0000 http://spanish-podcast.com/?p=536#comment-1721 First off, now I know why you write so well. You are a reporter. No fair cheating! You have to work on the accent in a foreign language - that is the hardest part. It is amazing to me when you run into someone who has just got it. The accent and intonation is great and it's easy for them. It's like someone with a great singing talent. The grammar and vocabulary can be learned by anyone - sometimes the accent can't. First off, now I know why you write so well. You are a reporter. No fair cheating!

You have to work on the accent in a foreign language – that is the hardest part. It is amazing to me when you run into someone who has just got it. The accent and intonation is great and it’s easy for them. It’s like someone with a great singing talent.

The grammar and vocabulary can be learned by anyone – sometimes the accent can’t.

]]> By: costarossa http://spanish-podcast.com/2008/11/13/speaking-spanish-with-an-accent/#comment-1720 costarossa Fri, 14 Nov 2008 09:32:09 +0000 http://spanish-podcast.com/?p=536#comment-1720 What a fabulous topic! I've thought of this so many times myself. I try to go for the golden mean but it is not always possible. I wouldn't be able to say which is better, having a good accent but poor vocabulary or a decent command of a language but horrible accent. I try to balance even though do not manage too well. At least, I am aware that both the aspects are important and work on them. I had a decent English accent until I moved to Malta. :) 7 years there destroyed it totally. Now I try and sometimes manage to speak a better English, but when I have to speak to a Maltese, I am back to square one. In fact, Maltese always thought I was Maltese on the phone and switched to their language with me. What a fabulous topic! I’ve thought of this so many times myself.

I try to go for the golden mean but it is not always possible. I wouldn’t be able to say which is better, having a good accent but poor vocabulary or a decent command of a language but horrible accent. I try to balance even though do not manage too well. At least, I am aware that both the aspects are important and work on them.

I had a decent English accent until I moved to Malta. :) 7 years there destroyed it totally. Now I try and sometimes manage to speak a better English, but when I have to speak to a Maltese, I am back to square one. In fact, Maltese always thought I was Maltese on the phone and switched to their language with me.

]]> By: eleena http://spanish-podcast.com/2008/11/13/speaking-spanish-with-an-accent/#comment-1719 eleena Fri, 14 Nov 2008 07:49:16 +0000 http://spanish-podcast.com/?p=536#comment-1719 Durazno, Andrew and James: Thank you for your comments. @Durazno: You're right about the intonation being very difficult for many people to nail down. @Andrew & James: I'm in total agreement with you when you say that a big deal shouldn't be made about acquiring a perfect accent. I would hate to see someone give up on learning Spanish just because of the accent issue. But Andrew, it's like you said, in general, not enough emphasis is placed on pronunciation and intonation in Spanish classes. I will say that the overwhelming majority of Spanish speakers I've met have been uniformly gracious when they hear me speak Spanish and I've never felt put down or made to feel inferior because of my accent in Spanish. The broader point I was trying to make with this blog post was that if someone is going to take the time and expend the energy in learning a ton of Spanish vocab and grammar to get to the point where they are practically fluent, why not make a little more effort into polishing the accent a bit? It's not about perfection but more about continuing to grow in the language. Durazno, Andrew and James:
Thank you for your comments.

@Durazno: You’re right about the intonation being very difficult for many people to nail down.

@Andrew & James: I’m in total agreement with you when you say that a big deal shouldn’t be made about acquiring a perfect accent. I would hate to see someone give up on learning Spanish just because of the accent issue. But Andrew, it’s like you said, in general, not enough emphasis is placed on pronunciation and intonation in Spanish classes.

I will say that the overwhelming majority of Spanish speakers I’ve met have been uniformly gracious when they hear me speak Spanish and I’ve never felt put down or made to feel inferior because of my accent in Spanish.

The broader point I was trying to make with this blog post was that if someone is going to take the time and expend the energy in learning a ton of Spanish vocab and grammar to get to the point where they are practically fluent, why not make a little more effort into polishing the accent a bit? It’s not about perfection but more about continuing to grow in the language.

]]> By: James http://spanish-podcast.com/2008/11/13/speaking-spanish-with-an-accent/#comment-1718 James Fri, 14 Nov 2008 02:54:15 +0000 http://spanish-podcast.com/?p=536#comment-1718 Esto es un sujeto muy interesante a mi. This is actually something I have been thinking about quite a bit recently. I have discovered that while my reading and writing in Spanish has improved tremendously, I still struggle with verbal communication. At first, I was convinced I was doing something wrong as I would try to communicate with native speakers and they would look at me funny. It wasn't that I was saying the wrong words, it was that 1) my accent, although not terrible, is nothing like a native speakers, and 2) because they were expecting me to be speaking English and not Spanish they were anticipating English words and didn't realize what I was saying. I was trying to decide how to work on this and I started questioning if I should focus more on the accent than on the vocabulary. Of course, I have come across the same situation where I have encountered someone who speaks fluent English but with such a thick accent I have a hard time understanding them. While it may be beneficial for all if we could work on better pronunciation, the fact is, we all talk in our own unique way. Given enough time, I can understand those with even the thickest accent. It is just a matter of getting used to how a person speaks. While I would certainly love to speak with a perfect Spanish accent, I realize that is almost impossible, as I have spoken with my northeastern American accent for all of my life. I would hope no one becomes discouraged with their progress based on their accent alone. I have certainly reached a point where I can communicate what I want to say to native Spanish speakers. While I am still convinced I must sound like a small child to them, at least they are understanding me. So, in the end, I think we should do our best to sound authentic, but accept that that is not always an easy task to accomplish. Esto es un sujeto muy interesante a mi. This is actually something I have been thinking about quite a bit recently.

I have discovered that while my reading and writing in Spanish has improved tremendously, I still struggle with verbal communication. At first, I was convinced I was doing something wrong as I would try to communicate with native speakers and they would look at me funny. It wasn’t that I was saying the wrong words, it was that 1) my accent, although not terrible, is nothing like a native speakers, and 2) because they were expecting me to be speaking English and not Spanish they were anticipating English words and didn’t realize what I was saying. I was trying to decide how to work on this and I started questioning if I should focus more on the accent than on the vocabulary. Of course, I have come across the same situation where I have encountered someone who speaks fluent English but with such a thick accent I have a hard time understanding them.

While it may be beneficial for all if we could work on better pronunciation, the fact is, we all talk in our own unique way. Given enough time, I can understand those with even the thickest accent. It is just a matter of getting used to how a person speaks.

While I would certainly love to speak with a perfect Spanish accent, I realize that is almost impossible, as I have spoken with my northeastern American accent for all of my life. I would hope no one becomes discouraged with their progress based on their accent alone. I have certainly reached a point where I can communicate what I want to say to native Spanish speakers. While I am still convinced I must sound like a small child to them, at least they are understanding me. So, in the end, I think we should do our best to sound authentic, but accept that that is not always an easy task to accomplish.

]]> By: andrew http://spanish-podcast.com/2008/11/13/speaking-spanish-with-an-accent/#comment-1717 andrew Fri, 14 Nov 2008 00:33:02 +0000 http://spanish-podcast.com/?p=536#comment-1717 I dont think you should discourage anyone by making an issue of the accent, the last think you want is anyone to be put off learning a language. But at the same time it is important. I've studied Spanish in various institutes and I really think they should correct you more often with the pronounciation and accent. I dont think you should discourage anyone by making an issue of the accent, the last think you want is anyone to be put off learning a language. But at the same time it is important. I’ve studied Spanish in various institutes and I really think they should correct you more often with the pronounciation and accent.

]]> By: Durazno Chapeado http://spanish-podcast.com/2008/11/13/speaking-spanish-with-an-accent/#comment-1716 Durazno Chapeado Thu, 13 Nov 2008 23:43:17 +0000 http://spanish-podcast.com/?p=536#comment-1716 uh-oh, that's a tough one... I am a Russian living in Mexico and teaching English... I am struggling with the same problem in class. Many people underestimate the importance of correct pronunciation (let alone intonation!) and become virtually impossible to comprehend. I think that vocabulary and grammar are easy to learn as long as you are interested in the subject (and, preferably, the language itself), while pronunciation is something that requires discipline, constant practice and good ear.. uh-oh, that’s a tough one… I am a Russian living in Mexico and teaching English…
I am struggling with the same problem in class. Many people underestimate the importance of correct pronunciation (let alone intonation!) and become virtually impossible to comprehend. I think that vocabulary and grammar are easy to learn as long as you are interested in the subject (and, preferably, the language itself), while pronunciation is something that requires discipline, constant practice and good ear..

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