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	<title>Comments on: Miembro vs miembra??</title>
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	<link>http://spanish-podcast.com/2008/06/17/bibiana-aido-miembra/</link>
	<description>A bilingual blog and conversational Spanish podcast.</description>
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		<title>By: Voices en Español &#187; Is Spanish inherently sexist and machista?</title>
		<link>http://spanish-podcast.com/2008/06/17/bibiana-aido-miembra/#comment-1178</link>
		<dc:creator>Voices en Español &#187; Is Spanish inherently sexist and machista?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jun 2008 11:37:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spanish-podcast.com/2008/06/17/bibiana-aido-miembra/#comment-1178</guid>
		<description>[...] it&#8217;s because I&#8217;m an angloparlante, but I see nothing inherently sexist with words like miembro or joven. Using the Spanish article &#8220;la&#8221; is enough to distinguish that the person being [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] it&#8217;s because I&#8217;m an angloparlante, but I see nothing inherently sexist with words like miembro or joven. Using the Spanish article &#8220;la&#8221; is enough to distinguish that the person being [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Roberto</title>
		<link>http://spanish-podcast.com/2008/06/17/bibiana-aido-miembra/#comment-1164</link>
		<dc:creator>Roberto</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 17:59:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spanish-podcast.com/2008/06/17/bibiana-aido-miembra/#comment-1164</guid>
		<description>Gracias a tí, Erik.

Un saludo</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gracias a tí, Erik.</p>
<p>Un saludo</p>
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		<title>By: Erik R.</title>
		<link>http://spanish-podcast.com/2008/06/17/bibiana-aido-miembra/#comment-1162</link>
		<dc:creator>Erik R.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 16:14:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spanish-podcast.com/2008/06/17/bibiana-aido-miembra/#comment-1162</guid>
		<description>Very interesting discussion.  Gracias, Roberto.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very interesting discussion.  Gracias, Roberto.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Roberto</title>
		<link>http://spanish-podcast.com/2008/06/17/bibiana-aido-miembra/#comment-1155</link>
		<dc:creator>Roberto</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 15:46:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spanish-podcast.com/2008/06/17/bibiana-aido-miembra/#comment-1155</guid>
		<description>Wow Erik, I&#039;m 37 and I promise you I do iron my shirts. All my male friends do it. Our wives or girlfriends won&#039;t do it for us. No way. I cook my meals, and so do most of my friends. I wish someone would do it for me, but no luck so far. 

That separation of duties and activities by gender you describe is true in the case of the older generation, but not anymore, at least not the people I know. I guess it depends whether you live in a small town or in a city and on which Spanish region we are talking about.

Erik, it&#039;s the same here in Spain, as soon as I hear someone speak, I immediately know how much education they have and what general social class they’re from and even which region they come from. Spanish is not your first language and perhaps that&#039;s why it&#039;s not easy for you to notice these things. But they are pretty obvious, believe me. I may sound a bit pretentious, but I bet I would be right 99% of the times.  And yes, Spanish people, me included, speak badly and write even worse.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow Erik, I&#8217;m 37 and I promise you I do iron my shirts. All my male friends do it. Our wives or girlfriends won&#8217;t do it for us. No way. I cook my meals, and so do most of my friends. I wish someone would do it for me, but no luck so far. </p>
<p>That separation of duties and activities by gender you describe is true in the case of the older generation, but not anymore, at least not the people I know. I guess it depends whether you live in a small town or in a city and on which Spanish region we are talking about.</p>
<p>Erik, it&#8217;s the same here in Spain, as soon as I hear someone speak, I immediately know how much education they have and what general social class they’re from and even which region they come from. Spanish is not your first language and perhaps that&#8217;s why it&#8217;s not easy for you to notice these things. But they are pretty obvious, believe me. I may sound a bit pretentious, but I bet I would be right 99% of the times.  And yes, Spanish people, me included, speak badly and write even worse.</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan</title>
		<link>http://spanish-podcast.com/2008/06/17/bibiana-aido-miembra/#comment-1153</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 15:13:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spanish-podcast.com/2008/06/17/bibiana-aido-miembra/#comment-1153</guid>
		<description>I agree with Roberto&#039;s teacher: It depends on the individual. Bolivia is considered a very poor country yet some of the most beautiful Spanish I&#039;ve ever heard came out of the mouthes of a few Bolivians who were not from wealthy backgrounds. I think that accents are becoming less regional and more social. You can blame the TV, movies, a more mobile lifestyle, etc.

Regarding Minister Aído and her &quot;miembras,&quot; I think she just should have said that she was trying to make Spanish less sexist and help all those women out there who feel oppressed and looked over by having to refer to themselves as &quot;miembros.&quot; As Minister of Equality it would have made sense and not reflected as poorly on her intelligence. Ah well, hindsight is 20/20.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Roberto&#8217;s teacher: It depends on the individual. Bolivia is considered a very poor country yet some of the most beautiful Spanish I&#8217;ve ever heard came out of the mouthes of a few Bolivians who were not from wealthy backgrounds. I think that accents are becoming less regional and more social. You can blame the TV, movies, a more mobile lifestyle, etc.</p>
<p>Regarding Minister Aído and her &#8220;miembras,&#8221; I think she just should have said that she was trying to make Spanish less sexist and help all those women out there who feel oppressed and looked over by having to refer to themselves as &#8220;miembros.&#8221; As Minister of Equality it would have made sense and not reflected as poorly on her intelligence. Ah well, hindsight is 20/20.</p>
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		<title>By: Erik R.</title>
		<link>http://spanish-podcast.com/2008/06/17/bibiana-aido-miembra/#comment-1151</link>
		<dc:creator>Erik R.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 13:32:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spanish-podcast.com/2008/06/17/bibiana-aido-miembra/#comment-1151</guid>
		<description>All I know is that when the women in my wife&#039;s family (her mother, aunts, cousins, etc.) first saw me iron my own shirt, they looked at me like I had just levitated off the ground.  They immediately came over and told me to stop that and go sit over there while they ironed it for me.  At first I was insulted, like they thought my gender was somehow an ironing disability.  This was SO foreign to me!  I later learned that most Spanish men have never ironed a shirt in their lives.  Their mothers do it right up until their wedding day when their wives take over the task.

Obviously all generalizations are false, but I&#039;ve continued to see a clear separation of duties and activities by gender in Spanish households.  I&#039;ve lived in the US, England, and Denmark, and I&#039;ve never seen such a strict divide as in Spain.

It&#039;s funny, Roberto, that you think Spanish is spoken so poorly and &quot;uneducatedly&quot;.  One of the biggest differences I&#039;ve noticed between the cultures of Spain and the UK is that, in the UK, as soon as you hear someone speak, you immediately know how much education they have and what general social class they&#039;re from.  That&#039;s not at all true in Spain.  Accents vary from region to region, but it&#039;s all pretty close to &quot;correct&quot; Spanish.  I have no experience with American Spanish, so I can&#039;t comment on that side of the ocean.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All I know is that when the women in my wife&#8217;s family (her mother, aunts, cousins, etc.) first saw me iron my own shirt, they looked at me like I had just levitated off the ground.  They immediately came over and told me to stop that and go sit over there while they ironed it for me.  At first I was insulted, like they thought my gender was somehow an ironing disability.  This was SO foreign to me!  I later learned that most Spanish men have never ironed a shirt in their lives.  Their mothers do it right up until their wedding day when their wives take over the task.</p>
<p>Obviously all generalizations are false, but I&#8217;ve continued to see a clear separation of duties and activities by gender in Spanish households.  I&#8217;ve lived in the US, England, and Denmark, and I&#8217;ve never seen such a strict divide as in Spain.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s funny, Roberto, that you think Spanish is spoken so poorly and &#8220;uneducatedly&#8221;.  One of the biggest differences I&#8217;ve noticed between the cultures of Spain and the UK is that, in the UK, as soon as you hear someone speak, you immediately know how much education they have and what general social class they&#8217;re from.  That&#8217;s not at all true in Spain.  Accents vary from region to region, but it&#8217;s all pretty close to &#8220;correct&#8221; Spanish.  I have no experience with American Spanish, so I can&#8217;t comment on that side of the ocean.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Roberto</title>
		<link>http://spanish-podcast.com/2008/06/17/bibiana-aido-miembra/#comment-1150</link>
		<dc:creator>Roberto</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 11:26:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spanish-podcast.com/2008/06/17/bibiana-aido-miembra/#comment-1150</guid>
		<description>&quot;Miembra&quot;, you have to love it, it&#039;s a wonderful word.

Regarding where or where not the purest Spanish is spoken, a Spanish Literature teacher I had at High School told us there&#039;s no place where a language is more purely spoken, it&#039;s the individual speakers, no matter their nationality, who make the language &quot;pure&quot; (meaning correct) or not. 

In my opinion, the Spanish spoken on both sides of the Atlantic is quite poor. It has to do with low standards of education. Usually, the poorer the country, the worse the Spanish you will hear.

And finally, Erik, are you sure Spain&#039;s behind other western countries in &quot;women&#039;s liberation&quot;? Honestly, I&#039;m not so sure. That&#039;s what I used to think also,  but I&#039;m starting to think it&#039;s a myth. I don&#039;t know about the US, but, according to what I&#039;ve seen,  machismo seems to be alive and well in most of western Europe.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Miembra&#8221;, you have to love it, it&#8217;s a wonderful word.</p>
<p>Regarding where or where not the purest Spanish is spoken, a Spanish Literature teacher I had at High School told us there&#8217;s no place where a language is more purely spoken, it&#8217;s the individual speakers, no matter their nationality, who make the language &#8220;pure&#8221; (meaning correct) or not. </p>
<p>In my opinion, the Spanish spoken on both sides of the Atlantic is quite poor. It has to do with low standards of education. Usually, the poorer the country, the worse the Spanish you will hear.</p>
<p>And finally, Erik, are you sure Spain&#8217;s behind other western countries in &#8220;women&#8217;s liberation&#8221;? Honestly, I&#8217;m not so sure. That&#8217;s what I used to think also,  but I&#8217;m starting to think it&#8217;s a myth. I don&#8217;t know about the US, but, according to what I&#8217;ve seen,  machismo seems to be alive and well in most of western Europe.</p>
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		<title>By: Erik R.</title>
		<link>http://spanish-podcast.com/2008/06/17/bibiana-aido-miembra/#comment-1148</link>
		<dc:creator>Erik R.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 22:57:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spanish-podcast.com/2008/06/17/bibiana-aido-miembra/#comment-1148</guid>
		<description>I heard some radio coverage of this, and the news person mentioned that &quot;English doesn&#039;t have this problem with gender-based nouns.&quot;  Funny.

Of course it&#039;s not like English doesn&#039;t have it&#039;s share of &lt;i&gt;perceived&lt;/i&gt; sexism.  The default &quot;he&quot; pronoun for anyone.  The &quot;womyn&quot; nutsos (nutsas?) that are annoyed by the word &quot;woman&quot; containing the word &quot;man&quot;.

Do our languages contain centuries-old sexism?  Sure.  Does &quot;serviceman&quot; really need to change to &quot;serviceperson&quot; for sexism to be abolished?  I&#039;m not so sure.

It&#039;s an interesting topic for sure.  Spain is considerably behind other western countries (certainly the US) in &quot;women&#039;s liberation&quot; or whatever it&#039;s properly called these days.

Thank you for highlighting this issue.

P.S. Wow, I just noticed that I unconsciously used the term &quot;news person&quot; in this comment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I heard some radio coverage of this, and the news person mentioned that &#8220;English doesn&#8217;t have this problem with gender-based nouns.&#8221;  Funny.</p>
<p>Of course it&#8217;s not like English doesn&#8217;t have it&#8217;s share of <i>perceived</i> sexism.  The default &#8220;he&#8221; pronoun for anyone.  The &#8220;womyn&#8221; nutsos (nutsas?) that are annoyed by the word &#8220;woman&#8221; containing the word &#8220;man&#8221;.</p>
<p>Do our languages contain centuries-old sexism?  Sure.  Does &#8220;serviceman&#8221; really need to change to &#8220;serviceperson&#8221; for sexism to be abolished?  I&#8217;m not so sure.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s an interesting topic for sure.  Spain is considerably behind other western countries (certainly the US) in &#8220;women&#8217;s liberation&#8221; or whatever it&#8217;s properly called these days.</p>
<p>Thank you for highlighting this issue.</p>
<p>P.S. Wow, I just noticed that I unconsciously used the term &#8220;news person&#8221; in this comment.</p>
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